THE head of the Independent Commission Against Corruption asked yesterday how NSW Fire Brigades was able to set budgets for capital works projects which, when brought in under budget, still brought in healthy returns for the contractors and for two of the brigades' project managers who were running a scam.

Jerrold Cripps, QC, who has taken evidence of a $2.5 million scam run over a 20-month period by two former fire brigade budget managers, Christian Sanhueza and Clive Taylor, said that in one project, at Corrimal, Bilas Knight Pty Ltd had been paid $256,000 for a profit of $40,000, and the two project managers received $56,000 on top of that.

At another project, at Bourke, Bilas Knight had been paid $233,000 for an $80,000 profit and Mr Sanhueza, who had put in a head tender and had secretly subcontracted Bilas Knight, had made an extra $138,000.

Mr Taylor, recalled to give evidence yesterday, said that he and Mr Sanhueza had been contracted in 2005 because the fire brigades had found that projects were running over budget and the service had decided to bring in outside project managers to make things "more efficient" and bring things in under budget.

Mr Cripps said he did not think engaging Mr Sanhueza and Mr Taylor had made things more efficient. "But to my mind what is more significant is information I have today that there have been budget allocations to do work under budget in which the person had made $80,000," he said.

Mr Taylor said he was aware of works done by the fire brigades in the past that had gone way over budget. Previously, he said, there had been "no attempt" to bring projects in under the budget.

He said that even when he was engaged, the fire brigades would give him a bald figure for the budget and there was no attempt to provide a breakdown of figures to support it.

The hearing resumes today.